‘W&L After Class’ Podcast Releases New Episode Featuring Mark Drumbl In this month’s episode, Professor Drumbl examines the function and limitations of law through his experiences, research and teachings in mass violence and human rights.

By Laura Lemon
June 5, 2024

“People often ask me, ‘Why do I find this work appealing?’ I find it appealing because at the end of the day, what I find fundamentally magnificent in looking at the most problematic places of the human condition is the constant flicker of optimism, potential, promise and goodness. And I think that is also something that needs to be cultivated.”

~ Mark Drumbl, Class of 1975 Alumni Professor of Law and Director of the Transnational Law Institute

In a profession dictated in absolute decisions, how can law acknowledge the gray area of the human condition? That’s what Mark Drumbl, Class of 1975 Alumni Professor of Law and Director of the Transnational Law Institute at Washington and Lee University, delves into in the latest episode of the “W&L After Class” podcast with Associate Director of Lifelong Learning Ruth Candler.

In this month’s episode, Drumbl questions and examines the function and limitations of law through his experiences, research and teachings in mass violence and human rights. He walks listeners through his time as a defender for those accused of mass atrocities in Rwanda and the shocking and perplexing encounters that changed the trajectory of his career. He explains his study of the marginalization of people and collective violence – such as child soldiers – and his beliefs on how we, as a society, need to reconceptualize evil. Through his perspective and stories, he challenges listeners to reevaluate their own perception of issues that appear black and white.

“Law is bad with the grays,” Drumbl said in the podcast. “Law is conditioned on universal moral absolutes. Innocent, guilty. Right, wrong. Up, down. Yes, no. But the reality of the human condition in times of collective cataclysm is far more nuanced. Going back to the salience of law being seen modestly, I think legal narratives form an essential part of how we understand history in the past, but they cannot form the only defining narrative. Because if they do so, they exclude too much, and they include too little.”

“W&L After Class” entered its fifth season on Feb. 13, with Drumbl’s “Facing the Gray” being the fourth episode. The season started with Rob Straughan, the Crawford Family Dean of the Williams School and professor of business administration, who described his journey at W&L, the evolution of the Williams School’s distinctive approach within a liberal arts curriculum and the exciting initiatives on the horizon, including the new Williams School building. This season also includes Wythe Whiting, professor of cognitive and behavioral science, who discussed the complex connections between mental health, sleep, physical activity and cognitive functioning, and Paul Youngman, associate provost and the Harry E. and Mary Jayne W. Redenbaugh Professor of German, who details the ever-changing roles W&L has played in his life.

The podcast series began in the spring of 2020 and is a collaborative effort of Lifelong Learning, Alumni Engagement and the Office of Communications and Public Affairs. Each episode invites listeners to experience conversations with W&L’s expert faculty, giving listeners worldwide a chance to stroll the Colonnade in the comfort of their homes. W&L faculty members discuss their teaching, research and special interests. Previous topics include poetry, witches, cybersecurity, theater and free speech.